Lets talk cams
03-17-2006, 11:46 AM
#1
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Lets talk cams
Ive been considering a cam change lately from the change in the intended use of the stang.
Any early birds on here using a custom cam from any of the major 'cam guys'? Im looking mainly at Ed Curtis, Jay Allen, TEA or Cam Motion. A few good friends have used TEA and Cam Motion for their cams and heads(TEA) with awesome results. I have full condifence in ordering a cam from TEA or CM. But preety sure CM wont give you springs with their cam and Im looking for a cam with springs package. But I could be wrong?
The only OTS cam that I might have a slight interest in is from Anderson their N61. Has anyone run any of their cams? results? The only thing I dont like about them is that they want 300 bones for a cam before springs (which they say, for the cam Im looking at you have to run their springs) and for a little less money I can get a custom cam from a few cam grinders but not all. Of course the custom cam price is + springs as well.
Thanks.
Any early birds on here using a custom cam from any of the major 'cam guys'? Im looking mainly at Ed Curtis, Jay Allen, TEA or Cam Motion. A few good friends have used TEA and Cam Motion for their cams and heads(TEA) with awesome results. I have full condifence in ordering a cam from TEA or CM. But preety sure CM wont give you springs with their cam and Im looking for a cam with springs package. But I could be wrong?
The only OTS cam that I might have a slight interest in is from Anderson their N61. Has anyone run any of their cams? results? The only thing I dont like about them is that they want 300 bones for a cam before springs (which they say, for the cam Im looking at you have to run their springs) and for a little less money I can get a custom cam from a few cam grinders but not all. Of course the custom cam price is + springs as well.
Thanks.
03-17-2006, 03:05 PM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 12,763
I spec'ed a pretty mild cam in my black car.. 224/230 .512/.512 112+4, and had Comp Cams grind it. It idled perfectly, tiny little burble, made GREAT low end and midrange, and peaked somewhere right around 6k. For a daily driver cam in a 302, it was great.
When chosing a cam, its all about the combination and sum of the whole. The cam I chose worked well for me, but could be way off for someone else. We can help with recommendations if we know the whole setup. As far as getting a complete package including springs, there's a lot more to choosing the proper valvesprings than what fits in the spring seat
Again, need more information (like cam profile, lift, valves, rockers, intended use of the car, etc.).
When chosing a cam, its all about the combination and sum of the whole. The cam I chose worked well for me, but could be way off for someone else. We can help with recommendations if we know the whole setup. As far as getting a complete package including springs, there's a lot more to choosing the proper valvesprings than what fits in the spring seat
Again, need more information (like cam profile, lift, valves, rockers, intended use of the car, etc.).
03-18-2006, 12:24 PM
#3
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Umm...you got comp to grind you a cam that you designed? Ive been having some ongoing convo's with Chris Crawford about just that. How much info did you give them? Do they just want what duration/lift/LSA and they will pick you a random ICL and ECL and hope it works or what? Correct me if Im wrong but you get ur LSA by adding the ICL to ECL and divide by 2. So if I wanted a 112 LSA and gave them no futher info I could get something from a 108ICL and 116ECL...or say 112ICL and 112ECL or..106ICL and 118ECL? Valve movement is different in all 3 cases. How much info is needed for a good cam?? hell i dont know!!
03-18-2006, 04:55 PM
#4
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Location: Katy, TX
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I gave them a pair of lobe numbers from their catalog, and then told them the ICL and ECL I wanted them at. Pretty darned simple actually, they made it easy. I actually ordered it through a speed shop that sold a lot of Comp, but worked all the details out on the phone with Comp directly.
03-20-2006, 10:32 AM
#5
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So you told them you want 'X' lobes for ur hyd roller 5 liter with 'X' duration and 'X' lift with 'X' ICL and 'X' ECL?
heres my app
Car is a full weight 1993 GT, daily driver. N/A
I like to refer to my shortblock as my 1/4 rebuild. Stock production block, crank, rods, and some 30 over flattops. I rebuilt it Years ago and dont remember the exact part # on the pistons but they're from Speed Pro. Theyre good up to 600 lift with my heads. CR is 10.5:1 Thats a 306ci motor.
AFR 185 heads, untouched
Trickflow Track Heat Intake, untouched
Comp lifters, chromoly pushrods, Pro Mag 1.6 rockers
70MM TB
76MM MAF
Trickflow stage 1 cam 221/225 .499/.510 112LSA
BBK 1 5/8 shorty headers, Bassani 2 1/2 off road X and 2 1/2 dynomax bullets. (I will be welding in some 2 1/2 cats shortly)
255 intank pump, Kirban FPR, 24lbs injectors
TKO 500 tranny, Spec stage 3 clutch
373 gears
Car is on a 275/40/17 tire and will be untill I graduate college.
MSD Pro Billet Dist and MSD Coil.
Desired rpm range would be 25/3000 to 6/6200. I dont care to shift the car any higher than 6500.
A few odds and ends, its a daily driver, Im going to attempt to pass emmisions legally after I put the cats on (which I dont think will be a prob with a cam in the 220,230's. It passes now if the car has cats on it haha) The car has A/C and I use it!
Im happy with the performance it puts out now, but would be looking for a solid 11 sec ET (not 11.9 or 11.8) on DR's at the track, which shouldnt be a problem with my heads/intake, if Im going to spend the money/time on this. I dont have a specific HP goal as Im one of those weird people that believe you dont drag race dyno #'s.
Anything else?
heres my app
Car is a full weight 1993 GT, daily driver. N/A
I like to refer to my shortblock as my 1/4 rebuild. Stock production block, crank, rods, and some 30 over flattops. I rebuilt it Years ago and dont remember the exact part # on the pistons but they're from Speed Pro. Theyre good up to 600 lift with my heads. CR is 10.5:1 Thats a 306ci motor.
AFR 185 heads, untouched
Trickflow Track Heat Intake, untouched
Comp lifters, chromoly pushrods, Pro Mag 1.6 rockers
70MM TB
76MM MAF
Trickflow stage 1 cam 221/225 .499/.510 112LSA
BBK 1 5/8 shorty headers, Bassani 2 1/2 off road X and 2 1/2 dynomax bullets. (I will be welding in some 2 1/2 cats shortly)
255 intank pump, Kirban FPR, 24lbs injectors
TKO 500 tranny, Spec stage 3 clutch
373 gears
Car is on a 275/40/17 tire and will be untill I graduate college.
MSD Pro Billet Dist and MSD Coil.
Desired rpm range would be 25/3000 to 6/6200. I dont care to shift the car any higher than 6500.
A few odds and ends, its a daily driver, Im going to attempt to pass emmisions legally after I put the cats on (which I dont think will be a prob with a cam in the 220,230's. It passes now if the car has cats on it haha) The car has A/C and I use it!
Im happy with the performance it puts out now, but would be looking for a solid 11 sec ET (not 11.9 or 11.8) on DR's at the track, which shouldnt be a problem with my heads/intake, if Im going to spend the money/time on this. I dont have a specific HP goal as Im one of those weird people that believe you dont drag race dyno #'s.
Anything else?
03-20-2006, 11:48 AM
#6
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 12,763
With those goals, I wouldn't get very far into the 230's intake duration, if at all. Since you're going to be running full exhaust, its likely going to help you a pinch to open up the exhaust duration a bit as well. With a manual transmission car, 3.73's, and a desire for a broad torque curve, I'd stick a little lower on duration and open up the LSA a bit. That is the recipe for a flatter, broader torque curve. It won't make the highest peak numbers to impress folks on the dyno, but the area under the curve will make it feel great, and run well down the track.
So, in my opinion, I'd look at something like this:
Intake lobe: 3016
280 degrees @ 0.002"
230 degrees @ 0.050"
154 degrees @ 0.200"
.576 lift with 1.6 rockers
Exhaust lobe: 3037
288 degrees @ 0.002"
236 degrees @ 0.050"
158 degrees @ 0.200"
.571 lift with 1.6 rockers
Grind that on a 114 LSA, 4 degrees advanced. That should get pretty close to your specs, and drive/idle beautifully.
So, in my opinion, I'd look at something like this:
Intake lobe: 3016
280 degrees @ 0.002"
230 degrees @ 0.050"
154 degrees @ 0.200"
.576 lift with 1.6 rockers
Exhaust lobe: 3037
288 degrees @ 0.002"
236 degrees @ 0.050"
158 degrees @ 0.200"
.571 lift with 1.6 rockers
Grind that on a 114 LSA, 4 degrees advanced. That should get pretty close to your specs, and drive/idle beautifully.
03-20-2006, 12:29 PM
#7
Mustang Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 28
I have used the AFM N-65 in the past and it worked quite well. The N-61 is an updated replacement for the 65 that is said to make better torque than the old cam did. I shifted that cam (N-65) with TW heads and Holley intake @ 6400 and used 4.30 gears on 26" tires. Your 3.73's won't be enough gear with any cam that will make your car run solid 11's N/A.
03-20-2006, 03:17 PM
#8
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Umm.....that duration and lift sounds like fun. Intake Lobe: 3016 Exhaust Lobe 3037.....thats the comp lobe numbers yes?
As far as picking ICL and ECL, I have no real clue. I only know real basic info. As I understand it, with a later ICL...say 115 or numerically higher(maybee even just a tad lower?)....the intake valve closes later. And will give you a bit more top end. Of course there is always trade offs to that. Getting a cam with a later ICL sounds appealing at first sight as of right now. Just to change things up a bit from where the are now. Any thoughts?
A Good broad tq curve and perhaps a less 'peak' number is great with me!
My TFS stage 1 is on a 108ICL and 116ECL. Makes sweet midrange, low end is above average from what alot of people like to gossip about on the net. ('street 306' with afr 185's = no low end)
Troy, I feel the gears are a little lacking with the 373s too. But dont necessarly want to change and as the car sits right now, Ive taxed C5 Z06's on the street. With the 3.27 first gear in the TKO, it comes out decently. With a good tune, driving, I think I could get a chance.
As far as picking ICL and ECL, I have no real clue. I only know real basic info. As I understand it, with a later ICL...say 115 or numerically higher(maybee even just a tad lower?)....the intake valve closes later. And will give you a bit more top end. Of course there is always trade offs to that. Getting a cam with a later ICL sounds appealing at first sight as of right now. Just to change things up a bit from where the are now. Any thoughts?
A Good broad tq curve and perhaps a less 'peak' number is great with me!
My TFS stage 1 is on a 108ICL and 116ECL. Makes sweet midrange, low end is above average from what alot of people like to gossip about on the net. ('street 306' with afr 185's = no low end)
Troy, I feel the gears are a little lacking with the 373s too. But dont necessarly want to change and as the car sits right now, Ive taxed C5 Z06's on the street. With the 3.27 first gear in the TKO, it comes out decently. With a good tune, driving, I think I could get a chance.
03-22-2006, 02:53 PM
#9
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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No early birds have recieved any custom cams from anyone?
Brian, from the looks of my young eyes...LSA is more popular to chat about, but its two constituents are far more important when wanting to get the most out of ur cam. Is this somewhat close to the truth? Or is this about as cool as people bickering about what rod ratio is better in their daily driver 347/331?
Brian, from the looks of my young eyes...LSA is more popular to chat about, but its two constituents are far more important when wanting to get the most out of ur cam. Is this somewhat close to the truth? Or is this about as cool as people bickering about what rod ratio is better in their daily driver 347/331?